En esta entrada voy a analizar a la nueva Solid Strike 2014, un modelo de DH con 200mm de recorrido y un sistema de Pivote Virtual muy interesante. Este modelo acepta ademas ruedas de 26" y 27.5": Las punteras traseras permiten ajustar la longitud de vainas (438-448mm) y un flipchip en el anclaje inferior del amortiguador permite ajustar la altura del eje de pedalier, afectando minimamente a la geometría y al sistema.
Como podéis ver en la tabla de excel y en la gráfica de Anti-squat el sistema de la Solid Strike tiene una eficacia de pedaleo impecable, con un porcentaje de Anti-squat en torno al 110%. La gráfica es muy similar a la de la Santa Cruz V10, con un tramo inicial prácticamente plano y una caida bastante pronunciada en la parte final del recorrido con la que se consigue reducir un poco el Pedal-kickback (18º). El Brake Squat (69%) está en un nivel medio, no es una cifra espectacular pero tampoco está nada mal si la comparamos con otros sistemas de este estilo...
En la gráfica del Leverage Ratio vemos como el sistema tiene un funcionamiento muy interesante: El sistema es progresivo (~3.0-2.1) pero la gráfica tiene dos fases, un primer tramo (0-160) con una progresividad relativamente suave y un tramo final (160-200) en el que la progresividad aumenta de manera exponencial. Este tipo de LR está muy bien, pero creo que favorece principalmente a un amortiguador de muelle con un funcionamiento lineal (CCDB). En la web podemos ver como la mitad de los modelos llevan un Rock Shox Vivid Coil y la otra mitad un Vivid Air. El Vivid Air tiene fama de ser un amortiguador muy lineal, con un tramo inicial muy sensible... pero aun así creo que el LR del sistema se complementa mejor con el Vivid Coil.
En la gráfica del Leverage Ratio vemos como el sistema tiene un funcionamiento muy interesante: El sistema es progresivo (~3.0-2.1) pero la gráfica tiene dos fases, un primer tramo (0-160) con una progresividad relativamente suave y un tramo final (160-200) en el que la progresividad aumenta de manera exponencial. Este tipo de LR está muy bien, pero creo que favorece principalmente a un amortiguador de muelle con un funcionamiento lineal (CCDB). En la web podemos ver como la mitad de los modelos llevan un Rock Shox Vivid Coil y la otra mitad un Vivid Air. El Vivid Air tiene fama de ser un amortiguador muy lineal, con un tramo inicial muy sensible... pero aun así creo que el LR del sistema se complementa mejor con el Vivid Coil.
Un saludo.
15 comentarios:
Para mi, un pelin alta con el AS.
Y eso quiere decir que está muy bien!.
La lástima es que estas bicis no van a venderse como las que todos conocemos... Llámale marqueting, moda, o vete tu a saber.
Saludos.
Joder, parece una máquina muy equilibrada... pero quizá podían haber bajado un pelín el AS en favor del PK... no creo que necesite más de un 38...
There are now quite a few bikes around that exhibit some similarity (mechanically or kinematically) to the Santa Cruz VPP design e.g. Propain, Antidote, Kross, non-production Polygon DH bike, Double Dragon and Solid.
The Propain and Antidote bikes are functionally quite unlike the Santa Cruz bikes. The rest seem to be aimed at what the designers consider a better optimization of one aspect or another of suspension function than has been achieved by existing bikes in the same 'family'. The Solid bike seems very similar to the Double Dragon RIP - AS and LR curves suggest a similarity of design objectives.
The high and slightly rising anti-squat (AS) curve seems to accord with what many commentators on motor cycle and ATV design consider the ideal for this parameter. The sharp fall in the AS curve in the last portion of travel is necessary to keep kickback (PK) within 'acceptable' limits. The AS curve of the Solid bike seems a bit more 'purist' than the Santa Cruz bikes - in the trade-off between AS and PK, AS is given the greater weight. It doesn't appear that the cost in terms of PK is that high in this case.
The sharply plunging AR curve later in travel is probably not what you want (if you are ever in the unenviable situation where hard braking with the suspension already heavily compressed is required). Any rise due to a modestly falling AR curve will be veiled by the compression of the suspension as the wheel tracks over rough terrain but if the fall in AR is too steep the rise will probably become noticeable and could be unsettling.
Un saludo
Chris
Yep, AR goes way to low, but it's just at the very end of the travel, I don't think that's a big problem.
Best regards,
Tony.
My general remarks may have obscured something. Personally, I think the bike is brilliant.
Un saludo
Chris
I'have just updated the Graphs. It makes a lot more sense to use the Double Dragon than the Antidote...
Best regards,
Tony.
yo me acabo de comprar la solid magix y la verdad que me encanta. Es mas, esta maraca me gusta por lo que mi futura dh sera la strike, calidad-precio a mi forma de ver perfecta y despues de ver tu estudio...... vamos, de cabeza a por la srtike.
La Solid Magix la tengo programada para mediados de mes, es un diseño muy clásico, pero creo que va a funcionar bastante bien.
Un saludo.
Antonio, thank you very much for analyzing one of my designs that accurately once again. I am the designer of the RIP and I work now fulltime for Solid Bikes, so the Strike is also my development.
Chris and all the others, thank you very much for your comments! :-)
It always makes me very happy to read that there are capable people around who understand the design intent of my suspension. Thank you my friends! :-)
The rear suspension of either bikes are very similar. The main difference are the 650B-wheels at the Solid Strike: I needed to get the BB down a little which slightly increased pk. AND: due to the larger wheels, you will run on a 34-teeth-chainring instead of a 36 or 38. You feel a slight pedal kickback especially when you are ascending in the highest gear. Luckily this is a downhillbike, so you don't really feel it when using the bike for its intended purpose.
The pivots at the Strike are located differently because I had to get some space for the larger rear wheel and our teamrider Benny Strasser forced me to create an option for shorter chainstays. The kinematic outcome is, as you can see, nearly the same.
Btw., officially the shorter chainstays can be used on 26" wheels only - in the end you can run 650B as well in the short adjustment if the shock reservoir is not too big. Anyway, this does not really make sense, because the bike with its 62° head angle is perfectly balanced when using the longer chanistays. Shorter chainstays create an imbalance unless you adjust the bb into its higher position, which steepens your head angle to 63°. Then it will work again, but who needs a high bb ... ?
About the shocks that work best: I feel very very pleased with the CC Doublebarrel. At the prototype, I was riding a Vivid air. This one performs also very good in this design. I personally ride a Marzocchi Moto R2C at the moment... the one with the boost valve - which is not needed at this design.
I like riding on a very hard compression dampening, this is why I prefer the Canecreek or the Marzocchi Moto. The Vivid is not bad, but cannot be setup as stiff in compression as the former 2 shocks.
On our youtube channel, there is a Video where I explain what the design is about - but I keep it really simple so everyone can understand. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoMMO2ID0Kn30SMtmzOHTgQ
Gracias
Un saludo
Matthias
Que bueno Matthias que los diseñadores escribais en sitios como este.
Interesante lo que comentas sobre los compromisos que un fabricante debe tomar a la hora de hacer una bicicleta. Saber qué se quiere exactamente antes de empezar, deber ser básico para seguir con todo el proceso posterior.
Miraremos esos videos que nos propones.
Saludos.
I've seen a few really nice reviews about the new Vivid Air, but I think this one it's going to work a bit better with a coil shock. I`ve just checked your website and you sell the frame with Vivid Air, Kage RC, and without shock for a killer price so getting the frame with an Aftermarket CCDB it's still an option.
BTW, I'm preparing an entry for the new V10 and I'm going to include the new Pivot Phoenix and the Solid Strike.... Same AS curve on the three bikes, and a bit different LR. SC and Pivot are made of Carbon Fiber... Very light, but also crazy expensive.
Best regards,
Tony.
Hello.
I would like to know the stats of this frame with a 600 lbs coil on a rock shox vivid. what will the sag be and what kind of force would it need to bottom out?
Bottom out at 3.800 Newtons, but sag depends on your weight.
80Kg.... 21%
90kg.... 23%
100kg... 25%
110kg... 27%
In my opinion it's way too hard and you probably don't need it unless you are planning on riding the red bull rampage course.
Best regards,
Tony.
With all gear weigh about 65\67 kg, but i like my suspension hard when i ride. i am more of a trick guy. that is why i want to try 600lbs
Well, with that weight you are going to be around 17% of sag. It's really low but dirtjump bikes have a very stiff setup too. As long as you have one setup for jumping and doing tricks and another one for bikeparks or for shuttles then it's not going to be a problem.
Best regards,
Tony.
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