Young Talent Tues 2012

Young Talent renueva completamente su modelo Tues DH para el 2012. El año pasado el cuadro recibió algunos retoques pero en las primeras imagenes que han aparecido vemos como este año el cambio es total: Sistema, tubería, estética, etc...






Como podéis ver en la gráfica del Anti-Squat la Tues 2012 ha mejorado un poco respecto a los modelos anteriores, pero todavía está un poco lejos del comportamiento ideal para un cuadro de DH, aunque con un plato de 30T y un cassette 9-17T quedaría perfecta. El Pedal Kickback tambien ha aumentado en comparación con los modelos 2010-11 pero sigue siendo bastante bajo (11º). El Brake Squat si ha cambiado de una forma importante, la nueva bieleta, con su tamaño y su posición rebaja el Brake Squat de un 60% a un 40%, cada vez mas cerca de una Demo o una Dare...

En la gráfica del Leverage Ratio vemos otro cambio importante. El sistema sigue siendo muy progresivo y no hay nada que objetar, pero han cambiado el amortiguador y han puesto uno de 10.5''x3.5'' asi que ahora el LR medio es bajisimo. Hace apenas dos años me preguntábais sobre este cuadro y yo criticaba un poco que utilizase un 8.5''x2.5''... El año pasado lo arreglaron con el típico 9.5''x3'' y este año pues van sobrados.

Un saludo.

39 comentarios:

Anónimo dijo...

hi there!

i find the LR perfect!

how did they manage to achieve such a low brake squat??

what do you mean by this?

"un plato de 30T y un cassette 9-17T quedaría perfecta"

which one is better, this or canyon frx 2012?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

The LR is very nice but the 2011 model was nice too. 3'' Shocks are the standar for DH bikes, they are lighter and it's easyer to find springs, sell them, buy new ones, etc...

The brake Squat is very low because this model uses a big rocker arm that it's almost horizontal.

The 30T chainring comment is about pedal efficiency. It's the only thing where this bike can be improved because it's around 60% of Anti-Squat. With a smaller chainring and one of the new 9T cassetes it would probably work better.

Anónimo dijo...

great! what do you mean 9T casstes?

is this one 9T?

http://www.sicklines.com/2008/02/25/sram-downhill-cassette-pg-970-dh/

can you give me an example?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Nine Tooth cassettes, just like the one Specialized riders have been using or Hope is going to launch soon...

Anónimo dijo...

do you rthink that because half of the LR is very low (below 2.4), it is better to have a softer spring to make the rear suspension more sensitive?

then agiain, i see that commencal supreme, devinci wilson, morewood makulu and lapierre dh, have about the same LR (~3-2)

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Of Course, if the LR is lower you are going to need a softer spring to get the recommended Sag.... Let's say 35%-40%.

With this shocks the only risk is that the Damper is not soft enough and the shock is overdamped, but if the Frame designer take this into account and do some testing It's going to be OK.

50lbs jumps between spring rates can be a problem too.

Anónimo dijo...

however do you think the LR width (3.1-1.9) is good? in medium bumps the LR of 2,4 will be sensitive enough? what spring do you reccommend for a rider weighing 75-80kg?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Yes I think 3.1-1.9 is good. And for a rider weighing 75-80kg a 300 lbs/in coil will work very well too (33% Sag).

Anónimo dijo...

you think 250 will give me too much sag, so i must preload it a lot, and the 350 will give me too little sag??

300 is the ideal? what do you think?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

With a 250... 39% of sag
With a 300... 34% of sag
With a 350... 30% of sag

That's with zero preload. As you can see 250 and 300 works fine, even a 275 would work very well. 350 is probably too much.

Anyway, this software can help a lot, but fine tunning is subjetive so you can never be 100% sure that one Coil is going to feel the best.

Best Regards,
Tony.

Anónimo dijo...

what software did you use for the sag/spring calculation?

Anónimo dijo...

also what sag do you use for freeride/dh use?

35% is almost ideal?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

The linkage program has a nice spring calculator build in, so that's what I use. And each sistem has a different ideal Sag 30-40%. 35% it's just an average number, a good starting point.

Anónimo dijo...

thank you!!! why do i have the feeling that, when the shock compresses almost fully, the saddle will rub in the rear tyre???

Antonio Osuna dijo...

The wheel gets very close but it's the same in alllllllll DH Bikes, It does't hit the saddle.

Anónimo dijo...

could you send me the tues 2.0 file for the linkage software????

my mail is trikalacity@yahoo.gr

thank you!!!!

Antonio Osuna dijo...

I've just uploaded it to the Web Library.

Anónimo dijo...

thanks a lot my friend!!!

Anónimo dijo...

antonio i am 1,85 tall. what size would you suggest in the tues 2.0.

medium or large?

Anónimo dijo...

------------sorry, i am 1,83-----------

Antonio Osuna dijo...

I'm not sure, the medium is quite long, maybe you are between M-L sizes.

Anónimo dijo...

Hola Antonio, hace un mes, mas o menos, empece a seguir tu blog, el cual me gusta mucho. Aunque haya muchas cosas que aun no entieenda.
Me gustaria comprarme una bici de DH i esta por equipamiento/precio esta muy bien, me podrias decir d una manera menos tecnica que tal va i que desventajas le ves?
Creo haber visto que comentbas que hay algun problema kon el amortiguador, pero no lo acabo de entender..
Gracis.
Joan.

Antonio Osuna dijo...

No hay ningun problema con el amortiguador, simplemente le han puesto uno bastante grande que en teoría tampoco hacía mucha falta, pero eso no es un problema. Es como decir que un coche tiene un maletero demasiado grande...

Y aparte de eso pues tiene una efectividad de pedaleo por debajo de la media.

Un saludo.

Anónimo dijo...

Hola Antonio,

lo primero felicitarte por un trabajo tan técnico y escrupuloso.

Crees que mejorará la capacidad pedaleadora de la Tues con la incorporación del Double Barrel?
Qué settings recomiendas para este amortiguador? Rider de 75kg, 1.80m altura y nivel medio.

Un saludo

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Calcular los settings es algo que todavía se me escapa. Con el Linkage puedo calcular el muelle pero los ajustes del hidraulico son mucho mas complicados. No se si el Amortiguador llevará un tune especifico para la Tues DH, pero supongo que si no lo lleva todas las regulaciones iran bastante abiertas porque el LR es muy bajo y el sistema tiene progresividad de sobra.

Un saludo.

Anónimo dijo...

Hola Antonio:
Tengo dudas con la talla. Mido 1,72 m de altura. YT me recomienda en sus tablas y tambien al ponerme en contacto con ellos, una talla S en la Tues. Para otros modelos de All Mountain, como la YT Wicked me sale una talla M. En otras bicis como Canyon Torque y Specialized Demo, sus web me recomiendan una talla M. Me gusta una bici manejable, mas para sitios técnicos que para bajadas a alta velocidad. ¿Que talla crees que sería mas aconsejable, una S o una M?

Muchas gracias y felicidades por tan trabajado blog.

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Yo le haría caso a ellos, que para eso son los que la han diseñado...

Un saludo.

Anónimo dijo...

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2695/tuesm.jpg

What really concerns me is that the design of the rear suspension (triangle) may not have enough lateral rigidity and side to side forces strength.

As you see in the pic, in 1 and 3 we have 2 joints. Those are the ones that hold the rear triangle with the front.

Length 2-3 is too long though, and I think that there will be low lateral rigidity. (this is one of the reasons that many manufacturers ...use another joint in the seattube)

The lateral forces in the joints (when braking in tight turns for example) may destroy the bolts in joints 1 and 3. (resulting in ‘play’ of the rear triangle, which would be destructive)

Just my concerns!

What do you think Antonio?

thanks!

Antonio Osuna dijo...

I think that you can't say if a frame is going to be strong enough just lookink at the pictures. The "Spine" of that frame is the downtube and the chainstays, If that parts are strong enough the rest doesn't matter to much.

Best regards,
Tony.

Anónimo dijo...

antonio what exactly is the v4l (virtual 4 link)? i see no virtual pivot, just a normal 4bar linkage.

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Well, all the FSR bikes are virtual pivots too. The Center of Curvature doesn't move much compared to a Mini-link design, but in theory they are the same thing.

Tony.

Anónimo dijo...

thank you!

one more thing, where did you find the dimensions to draw the tues 2 frame?

do you have the cad drawing?

Antonio Osuna dijo...

No Cad drawings. I use pictures, Renders, Geometry drawings, Asembly instructions,etc...

Tony.

Anónimo dijo...

Thanks for the great blog!

Here are some thoughts I have (and don't get me wrong I think you're doing great job and I greatly appreciate it):

I did some valuation on the linkage program for the various points of the linkage, shock mounts, bb etc. I think some of the points are bit off my main concern being chainstay length 443 on the linkage file and 425-430-435mm according to geosheet and bb height 364,7 instead of 360 but that could be from tires. I'm using demo version of software so testing is a bit complicated as I can not save the alterations.

I think there is new picture on yt website of the tues 2.0 captured from a low and quite far away position which could work as a guide line for the points. I'm tempted to buy the personal version of the software to try to model this frame even better.

The LR is very low at the end of the stroke. Do you remember any other bike with similar crazy low 1.9 LR? Very progressive. I wonder if shocks would work without bottomout bumper.. This could be very hard to get bottom out.

Jarno.

Antonio Osuna dijo...

Yes, the Chainstays are a bit longer than spec, I probably used the shock lenght for scaling reference. When you use the Chainstays the shock is usually a bit off but it's not very important.

And BB Heigh it's always complicated because the lenght of the fork it's difficult to set, you never know exactly what are the dimensions of the Headset and sometimes you are using a picture of just the frame, so you have to guess the front axle position and then adjust it until it looks OK...

Anyway, the model geometry is never going to be 100% perfect unless you have the CAD file, but you always get a good idea of how the bike works.

The LR is very low on this one, but there are a few more bikes with similar or even lower LR: Intense 951, Foes Hydro, Morewood.... But Bottoming out depends a lot on how the setup of the dampers.

Tony

Anónimo dijo...

you have a softer spring though (because of the low LR)!

so it can bottom out.

Anónimo dijo...

Hola, Antonio viendo la web de YT, he visto que la tues lleva el amortiguador de 9.5x3.00 y la tues 2.0 el de 10.5x3.5, cual crees que se adapta mejor a los descensos mas pedaleadores? merece la pena el cambio? aún teniendo una efectividad algo por debajo de la media, se puede arreglar un poco con las regulaciones del amortiguador no?, gracias.

Jaime A dijo...

Esperando tu analisis de la nueva tues carbon Antonio. Estoy entre esta y la nueva demo.

Antonio Osuna dijo...

La tengo programada para finales de mes. En principio creo que va a ser muy parecida al modelo de aluminio, pero se han pasado a las ruedas de 27.5 y tal vez haya cambiado alguna cosa mas asi que toca analizarla para asegurarse...

Un saludo.

 

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